Saturday, July 19, 2008

About Anti-SNSD Fan Culture: Anti-Fans are Jealous of SNSD

One of the most common accusations against anti-fans is that anti-fans are jealous of SNSD. Naturally, this is a common and almost legitimate argument to fall back on because SNSD is from the same company as DBSK and Super Junior, both of which have a very large female fan base. Furthermore, regardless of any plastic surgery, the SNSD girls aren't really that ugly in my opinion, although beauty is in the eye of the beholder (for example, I think many of the users here would disagree with me ^^).

Therefore, defensive SNSD fans feel that they have a sound argument when they accuse DBSK and Suju fans of hating SNSD just because "they are close to the oppas that you wanna marry." Of course, this incenses the situation even further and is kind of a low blow; I am a girl and I think that one of the things all girls hate to be called is desperate.

But the matter of the fact is, most of the people who know about SNSD--the very root of their fanbase, right when they first started out--probably found out about SNSD because they were already aware of SM Entertainment, DBSK, Super Junior, and other class acts like Zhang Liyin and The Grace. Even if they were not a fan of any of these groups, per se, they were probably aware of them because of all the hype there is about them in Kpop--who can ignore the rabidly screaming fans during an artist's performance and not wonder how they'd garnered such fervent admiration; it would probably deserve a Wikipedia or a Youtube search at least--and from there, their eyes would probably perk up when they spotted a piece of news about SM Entertainment's newest group, their newest project...

So, SNSD does owe a good part of their fame to their seniors and their fans, who kept the buzz up (unintentionally, perhaps; for example, my two friends who are really into kpop boybands (DBSK, F.T. Island, Big Bang) discuss it together all the time, and one day they were talking about SM and the new debut girl group, and who was sitting alongside them but kiddy old me, guffawing, "9 members?? for serious??"...and then I went home and googled), and while I'm sure it is true that if a DBSK member showed up on any random fangirl's doorstep (the rabid kind, the shy kind, the interested-but-only-check-'em-out-every-once-in-a-while-kind; it all goes) and proposed marriage, they would probably accept on the spot, no dates necessary. If not for the dude's singing chops and personality, then because he is famous, and I'm sorry to say that girls, but we like a romp and a bit of glamour now and then, huh?

But despite all of this, at the core, Anti-Fans are not jealous. Most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that we are never going to marry or date these people; it would be nice just to see them perform in person. If we do harbor those kinds of romantic dreams, well, they're dreams, we understand--you don't see anybody declaring "Hero Jaejoong <333 I'm going to meet him and he's going to fall madly in love with me in the .03 seconds he sees me at the airport" except as a joke. This is common to all singers' fandoms, even SNSD; they're singing love songs for Heaven's sake, usually in the second person, don't use the premeditated effect as an insult.

Instead, SNSD's closeness to popular boy groups and scandals like Taesu and Jessica/Donghae probably create the impetus for fans of those groups to go online, find out more about SNSD, judge for themselves whether the rumors are true, and see and learn about the person whom everyone thought could possibly be so-and-so idol's girlfriend. I think intense fans in particular would take the news with a grain of salt; they would not want to believe that their idol is attached. But with the expectations they place on their idol's girlfriend, they would tend to be skeptical of whoever that person is and would probably expect them to be pretty above average (so yes, there are some relationship dynamics involved, I concede that, but not to the extent where "antifans suck because they're really just jealous bitches" is necessary).

And in encountering SNSD...well, it'd probably induce some head-scratching. Not because they're ugly or anything (again, what I think), but because of their songs and their image, which are kind of contradictory.

The girls are singing about meeting someone "at the end of my wandering", "don't tease me 'cause I'm young", "kissing you baby", all really sweet stuff, a bit like DBSK "Hug" and SuJu stuff like "Happiness", but SNSD is different because, erm, that's kind of all they do. SuJu has sexier stuff like "Don't Don" and DBSK songs now include lyrics like "I really wanna touch myself". *cough cough* Also, SNSD's style--short skirts and what I really can't stomach, bare midriffs, no pun intended--are inserted amidst all this syrup, and it just comes off looking skewed. The subliminal messaging is almost lewdly blatant to teenage girls, maybe not to younger girls and fanboys, but definitely to teenage girls, who are at the point in their lives when they want to be noticed, and not just in a "cute" way either, except that they can't be too obvious about it or look like they're trying too hard because society disfavors female sexual overtures...but SNSD's flavor kind of circumvents the rules. Their image is definitely fresh and innocent, but coupled with the skin they are showing, it's meant to be kind of sexy too, and in real life it just doesn't work that way. Teenage girls understand that you can't have both, hence the "SLUT!!" parade.

To many teenage girls, the SNSD girls just don't seem like potential friends. With their image, they don't seem to have the same desires or wants, and coupled with the fact that they are earning a living while doing what they love--if you want to make an accusation of jealousy, this is the right reason--and that their individual personalities aren't easily discernible (see Park Kyung Lim Wonderful Outing and UFO Interview to glean the girls being shy, awkward, and confident at the wrong times; also, there are just so many of them!) and often relatable to in the way that "Oh, I act like that when I want to impress someone, yup", which they can do now with more assured ease because these are girls and not boys, and then all the bad rumors there exist about SNSD, many of which haven't been cleared up in a cohesive article by the fans if they aren't true, and the fact that thousands and thousands of fans actually got it together long enough to boycott them with silence (the logistics of it!), and Schadenfreude, well, they aren't going to get much sympathy from the largest fanbase of all, young teenage girls.

They're not jealous. SNSD is just not friend material, and it's okay not to be friends, but if a person's personality is not just neutral and boring but also overbearing* and rude**, then that person's status elevates from being "not a friend" to being that person whom people dread spending time with and talk about behind his/her back.

Case in point: Wonder Girls' larger female fanbase.

Wonder Girls were chosen by both girls and boys as an idol group that they would want to usher in the New Year with. [source] SNSD was chosen by the boys only. (WG was also apparently first among the boys, SNSD came in a close second.)

Wonder Girls' image is pretty straightforward. "Irony" was supposed to be sexy, "Tell Me" funny, and "So Hot" both sexy and funny. There are no midriffs showing in "So Hot." It's a subtle sexy, and it's something that both boys and girls can laugh at--"Tell Me", too, with So Hee acting as Wonder Woman and that flasher and all the girls staring in fawning admiration at So Hee when she saves them. The lyrics match too.

Meanwhile, SNSD MVs are usually filled with closeups of the girls doing cute things, like running around under a mushroom in Alice costumes or popping up with cute expressions (go to 1:24 and 1:26 in the Girls Generation MV where Yuri does some truly weird things). Except in Into the New World, there's not much of a coherent story.

*In UFO interview (Part 4/05 on youtube, at around 1:20), Jessica answers the question, "Do you think you are all angels?" with "Yes, angels, because we are all pretty and kind." Granted, that entire show was embarassing questions, but I reckon Jessica could have left the first part out. Then, on arirang radio interview, Tiffany said that "SNSD has 9 beautiful girls" when giving a description of their group. I think "talented" or something would have been a more fitting thing to say, but they decide to focus on looks. (Come on, if your classmate was the star of the school play and was trying to get you to come watch, would a reason she would give be, "Because my costars and I are gorgeous"? That may be the case with movies starring Angelina Jolie and stuff, but it's not like you go around and proclaim that--I can tell that Angelina Jolie is hot stuff just by looking)

** Correcting Kim Ji Suk's English and the long list of stuff
on the "Why did it happen?"


marmar said...

wow i have to agree with this. i don't really consider myself an anti because i like sooyoung she's the only one i like because she seems nice & doesn't really care much for her image but i can't stand the group.
& no i'm not jealous i'm not even a dbsk fan or a ss501 fan. I am a suju fan but come i know i will never ever get a chance to really meet them so me being jealous because they are near them is like the stupidest argument a snsd fan can come up with against me.
also jealous?
to be jealous they have to have something that you want. & they have nothing i want.
i don't want their looks because they look like they been under the knife before & i prefer natural beauty over surgically enhance beauty.
talent? please I seen better talent.
Fame? what fame? their only well known in korea no one knows them in america so no..

So they have nothing i want to be jealous of.
I can't stand them because of the image they are suppose to portray.
They are suppose to be innocent pure girls yet how innocent is it really if your dancing around in mini skirts & showing off your belly? that's not innocent.

Plus they are disrespectful to others, they say things without thinking about the consequences.
That's why I don't like these girls.

They can run their mouths but when someone calls them on it they act like they don't know what they done then they go & cry about it.
Grow up.

Anonymous said...

You just said everything that I wanted to say.

hanbin said...

Wow. This was nicely put. I think SNSD fans should seriously have a look at this, although I highly doubt some of them would actually take the time to read something like this. Immature ones would probably just skim through it and then start bashing because they can't seem to accept the fact that not all Anti-SNSD fans are jealous.

That's probably one of the most retarded (sorry, I had no other way to put it) points. Sure, there are those extremists who are jealous but really now. The Grace, BoA, and LiYin have been pretty close with these pretty-boys yet they haven't earned this many antis before. So all in all, the reason for Antis hating SNSD is not because of that one little reason but everything put together.

I'm not entirely sure if I could be considered as an anti because I find their songs pretty catchy and bubbly, but I most certainly dislike every single person in the group. Well, less on Yuri but that's besides the point.

As stated by marmar, the emotion jealous has to do with wanting somethint that they can't have, and I'm most certainly NOT jealous. I'm a fan of them pretty boybands, yes, but I could care less about meeting them, much less want to 'marry' them/want to be with them.

SNSD fans shouldn't be generalizing the way they do, because sorry, that's not how the world works. Just because one fan is jealous it doesn't mean the rest are. They should look deeper into the situation and just accept what we think like how we accept how they think. With that said, I don't give a damn about whether they've been under the knife and I don't hate them because they've done so. Almost all artists go under the knife, so to single them out is just stupid and pointless.

Despite the fact I dislike these girls, I won't deny these girls of their minimal talent that they possess because some of them are considerably talented (Taeyeon and Hyoyeon).

But anyway, I went off topic--the main reason why they have so many antis: their disrespectful nature and riding on the coat tails of their seniors. Sorry, but without the constant promotion by SM and help of their seniors, they would've sunk a long time ago. Yet they are not grateful and go on and about by speaking rudely.

A few (or a lot) of SNSD fans claim that they're merely following the script and if they didn't, we would think they're dull bitches. No, we wouldn't. They could incoperate it with a different alternative. I'm sure it's not only THEIR scripts that have rude comments and that other artists have had scripts with rude remarks, yet I'm pretty sure they've circumvented it because whatdoyouknow.. they DON'T (or have considerably less) antis.

I apologize, but SNSD fans should find better points for supporting their beloved artists because the points I've mentioned above create many holes and are immensely weak.

unnie fan said...

i'm not good at english but as snsd fan i want to respond to some of your comments.

1. i don't think antis are jealous. hate can't be that simplified. we know it's more complex than that.

2. and about the part you said 'all the bad rumors there exist about SNSD, many of which haven't been cleared up in a cohesive article by the fans if they aren't true'- well, because we thought there's no point to respond to *every single nitpicking*. personally i started to write some counter-argument(of course, in korean) then i feel silly. i thought 'what's the point? antis will be antis.'

i don't know if you're in korea, there're always plenty of fanwar with or without snsd(lately, argument about seo taiji heats up), so i really didn't pay attention to what antis have to say.

again you have a point. maybe snsd fans should be more active about doing counter-argument. like writing cohesive article about rumors(in korean and english).

3. about the girls being disrespectful- they pay respect. they're paying their dues. korean media is not kind to newcomers. if ther're rude like some of you think, no producers or advertisers will hire them. you can just leave that part to industry people. you only saw some tiny bits of variety shows which is still awkward for girls, especially tiffany who's still learning korean. please don't judge them by those.

i want to add more but this is time all i have right now. i'm one of many unnie fans of snsd. so i can't really relate to some teenage girls' feeling toward snsd. this article was helpful.

Anonymous said...

First of all I want to thank all the people here. You dislike SNSD but you talked politely about them.
Really, thank's...
I know that a lot of antis aren't jealous of them but there are a lot of immature ones that are really jealous. But well, that's why they're called immature.
What I don't understand it's the
'' plastic generation or the slut generation''. They don't choose their outfits and what if some of them had plastic surgery? I don't see any thing bad about it. A lot of artist had. Calling them sluts it's too... rude.
I also don't understand why do people say that they're talentless.
They're just like Suju. Each member has a different skill and that's why there are so many members.
All the members can sing but it's just that Taeyeon and Jess are better than the rest. Tiffany, Seohyun and Sunny can sing too.
Hyoyeon is an excellent dancer. Yoona and Yuri are good at acting, modeling and dancing. Sooyoung can act, model and mc. Some members are good at english, some at chinese and Sooyoung is good at japanese.
And we can't blame the whole group because of Tiffany.
I always respected the opinion of the antis of hating the girls and I always talked politely to them.
I don't problems with you. Everyone can hate and love. What I can't stand is that some immature antis just hate them because of the surgery or their outfits. Are these reasons to hate them? NO.
Because of being disrespectful? Maybe. Think about the rest of the girls. Should they be hated because of some members? (Tiffany)

However, thank's for being mature and talk nicely about the girls.
(Sorry for my eng)
I really want to apologize because some SNSD are really immature and they hurt a lot of people. Mostly antifans and their idols. But I know, antis are people too. Althought i can't do anything for that I really wanted to say... SORRY :(
But Please, forgive the kindhearted and mature SNSD fans.

Take care~

aienbest said...

i'm an unni fan of the girls, and i just want to say few things.

1. are you sure you're not a fan? you seems to know a lot 'bout a fan..hehe =p
2. it's okay to dislike other people but, to hate? dear, hate is not good for you..
"Hate is too great a burden to bear. It injures the hater more than it injures the hated."
- Coretta Scott King, author
3. the girls are being disrespectful? they're just young girls.. i was kinda rude when i was younger too. hehe
4. nice writing. how old are you? i bet you're good in school.

take care.

Anonymous said...

unnie fan- I'm not an anti; just neutral. I don't care for their songs (urgh, too cutesy and immature for my tastes) or their personalities because while some find their arguing and bicking endearing, I find it.... embarrassing? They're supposed to be role models, but then they act like they're nine, so yeah. However, in regards to the "They're new, Tiffany's still learning." Um.... Tiffany's trained for three years already prior, she should know by now. As for the rest, I'm sorry, but to be recognized in the industry as a respectable artist, you have to be professional and careful about what you say at all times. I don't remember BoA pissing anyone off when she debuted because of her words and she was FOURTEEN... and had only trained for two years. Frankly, age and experience is no excuse for disrespect, especially in Korea and Asian cultures in general, where respect for your elders is such a big thing.

Oh_Mona said...


First of all, welcome to STAND!

No, I think the members of STAND are not Fans of SNSD, you do know what STAND stands for? 'Strong 'Till All Nine Disappear'. Common sense would tell you, that we are not very favourable towards them. Though regarding your first 'point' I find contradicting the obvious (Yes thats what SNSD fans do) is getting quite ridiculous.

I, personally (And probably most STANDers)do not hate the members of SNSD, STAND is actually doing this for the 'Love' of our fandom, not everything is so shallow, dear(If you're so curious about anti-fans why dont you read our Agenda). Though SNSD fans have showed time and time again their 'Hate' for Antis, you also happen to be one of them. I am referring to the video upon video sugar coated with malicious references to Anti fans. So, before you accuse us of hating, try seeing if it refers to you also, and your fellow fans, ofcourse, you are One (S<3ne to be exact) so it only make sense that you share the burden, correct?

If you're going to be interested in a countrys music industry, you have to understand the culture and society also. Most of these girls that you are defending are legally adults in South Korea(That means you have to start taking responsibility for your actions ;) ), they have been in the news for their acts of disrespect and were forced to apoligize in one occasion. Respect for your seniors and elders is suppost to come second nature to Koreans. Being representatives of the 'Girls Generation' and public figures (And also being trained by SM and educated in the matter of manners and decorum) they should be especially careful, yet they choose not to, and repeat the offences even after 'Apoligizing'. And you're defending that?

Yes, STAND encourages civility and maturity in posts. Can't say so much for you and your obvious cheap attack at the writer of the post. I know you feel insecure in your fandom, but coming on our grounds and trying to verbally attack one of our members is just low. Sugar coat your words all you like, the malice behind it cannot be missed.

Thanks for the well wishes though,
You take care of yourself too~

Anonymous said...

Ok so I'm not an Anti but do I agree with the direction your going. I find the image they represent to insult to the women and girls of this generation. I find their image to be antifeminist with some very strong pediophile agendas (not a morning musume fan either) The lollipops they lick seem to suggest something else other than lollipops (coughs)
I also wonder why if it was jealousy, artist like BoA, The Grace and Jang Riin don't have such an intense Antifan base.
As for Anti's out there, if there is something worse than hate, than it would be indifference, giving them so much attention is a waste of your time and only heats up fans even more. Stand strong and ignore them if you hate them so much.